Jesus answered them and GAVE THEM THE SIGN: “When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)...” Mark reported: “But when ye shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand)” Luke's Report TELLS US PLAINLY what we're supposed to "UNDERSTAND": “And WHEN YE SHALL SEE JERUSALEM COMPASSED WITH ARMIES, THEN KNOW that the DESOLATION THEREOF is nigh.” The END-TIME ANNIHILATION of JERUSALEM IS THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION!! (Mat 24:15, Luk 21:20, Mar 13:14) ..... Let's TURN ON THE NEWS and see if armies are CURRENTLY surrounding Jerusalem?? --clark

Is the Rapture at the Beginning of the Tribulation?

The Bible tells us the rapture comes with the sound of a trumpet:
  • "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  (1Thes 4: 13-18)"
"With the trump of God"... which trump? Paul tells us in 1Cor 15: 51-52:
  • "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"
The book of Revelation explains step-by-step the events of the 7 seals and 6 trumps leading up to the rapture/first resurrection of the dead ("at the last trump").

How can anyone know these scriptures and believe anything other than: the rapture/first resurrection of the dead happens at the end tribulation*, not at the beginning.
  • *Jesus said: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Mat 24:29-30)"
This important doctrine is discussed further at:
                         Last Day Wrath of Satan vs. Last Day Wrath of God


--clark

18 comments:

  1. Thank God for your study my Brother! I thought I was the only one dividing the word rightly! Scary thought!...:)

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  2. So, you are saying that the church will go through and endure the seven year tribulation period? If that is true why then did Jesus have to die on the cross and endure God's wrath if we have to endure God's wrath during the tribulation period? Does not this post trib view of the rapture cheapen the death of Christ on the cross!! On the cross He took God's wrath so I would not have to face God's wrath. Paul told the Thessalonians that we (the church) are not appointed to wrath but that we have been delivered from the wrath to come (1 Thess. 4:9-11). You say the last trump of 1 Cor 15 is the seventh trump in Rev. The trumpets of Rev. are trumpets of judgement this is a trumpet of celebration. The context does not match. It would be better to see the last trump in 1 Cor. as the last trump of the church agenot the 7th trump of Rev. Context is so very important as we interpret Scripture.

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  3. Thanks for explaining your view (of which many, if not most, evangelical Christians share).

    YOU ARE RIGHT WHEN YOU SAY THE CHURCH IS NOT APPOINTED TO GOD'S WRATH. This specific time of "God's Wrath" does not begin until the sounding of the "Last Trump." This same sounding (of the 7th Trump) is also the time when Satan's wrath ends. We show where the Bible teaches this at:

    "Last Day Wrath of Satan vs. Last Day Wrath of God" follow this URL:

    http://lastdaybibleprophecy.blogspot.com/2010/11/last-day-wrath-of-satan-vs-last-day.html

    -clark

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  4. Here is Heaven's revelation to me in 2010. The true Church, the Bride of Christ (those who have cleaned their robes and are walking with him, not just those who say they are "saved" but live like the devil) will be raptured BEFORE the antichrist takes reign, but because Heaven is on a different time than earth, to Heaven it will seem one and the same- antichrist takes reign, Church goes up-- We are in the tribulation right now (look around you, birds and fish dying, earthquakes, record deaths...) but the GREAT TRIBULATION the Bride of Christ will not endure. --Keep an eye on the messages thru God's prophets lately,
    https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150250312796004

    they speak of being ready, not being left behind to endure the torture of the Great Tribulation, if there was no escape, Jesus would not have told the Revelation churches to pray that they escape these things to come....

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  5. The Cross paid the price for our sins and guaranteed eternal life. The Bible says nothing about it preventing suffering in this life. Jesus Himself said that in the last days, we would be persecuted and killed. God does not protect His people against natural disasters either, as a rule. During the reign of the Antichrist, many Christians will die.
    The Bible also does not speak of a "fly-by" of Jesus before His return to earth. When He comes to set up his 1000 year reign, "the dead in Christ shall rise first, etc." and meet Him in the air, and return immediately to earth. We will have glorified bodies and will reign with Him at this time. We don't go up ahead of time and fly around for a while during the tribulation period. He may protect us, but the Cross doesn't mean no death nor suffering for Christians. We aren't enduring His wrath upon us personally, but we are in the fallen world until His return.

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  6. Some will go thru Trib, some won't. Doesn't matter Rapture Yes or no the Simple Read of Revelatation letters to Seven Church's has one church Spared the great tribulation. So people can pretend, contend, debate, grate on each other or deny anything they want to based on for or against and have some valid points on all sides. But if You deny the Book Of Revelation SAYS that one Church is spared the great Tribulation....after reading the end of the Book, I wouldn't go there...., Now as to the age old it was back then or when fallacy......It's simple to the simple. Jesus said it, and he meant it, So if He said it, Do you think I want someone to interpret it?.....IT IS THE WORD of GOD and in this case.....BLUNT about ONE Church NOT going into Trinulation....the funny thing is watching everyone scramble to say who is in it and who isn't....Good Luck

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  7. It is very plain to see,
    I cannot see how anyone can say otherwise,
    The scriptures are very clear on this one.

    Did not God have His hand over the people in Goshen? Yes and many were the judgements upon the land of Egypt.

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  8. Luke 18:8 says when I return will I find any faith? To me this says the church will already have gone...And we will return with him then. I know the verse that says there will be a great falling away also means in the greek they will reject truth which that is already happening...All i know is I believe it will be mid trib. Just know this we should just be ready for anything daily living to serve our Lord ansd Savior!!

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  9. Yep, I totally agree!!! Did all of you know that that the pre trib rapture teaching was not even heard of until the 1800's hundreds and that all the earlier scholars of the word of God from the earliest churches on up believed in the post-trib rapture: meaning second coming(parousia) resurection of saints and prophets after the anti christ comes then Jesus would come with ten thosands of saints... Enoch said that in his scriptures.. All the earlier churches kept the book of enoch too, but many say today that you shouldn't read it, But did you know as long as other books that are not in the bible are not contrary to the Word of God in the bible there is nothing wrong with it... There are many books that are not contrary to the bible that are not in the bible... Jude even talks about about enoch prophesied Jesus would come with ten thousands of saints.... The word parousia is the most common word use from the Greek language to talk about the second coming of Christ... This word is even use to talk about the days of Noah two times... and before this the desciples asked about the sign of His coming(parousia) Matthew 24:3 and Matthew 24:27 talks about this word coming of Jesus and 1 Corinthians 15:23, 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and 2 Thessalonians 2:8 and there are about 5 or so more times this word is used and some of the meaning are: the second coming, physical aspect, visible appearance, addvent which means arrival... These are all refering to the same topic of Matthew 24:29-31 Mark 13 and Luke 21... If you say that the word elect in any of these chapters means Jew as some say... I garantee no one can prove that by scriptures... But in the Greek I can prove what the word elect means and it doesn't mean Jew... One more thing also... Only four times in the old testament is the word elect used, but aroundl 19 or times in the new testament... so to conclude the word elect in a chapter or two with out scriptural support is heratic... Ireneas was a desciple of John the apostle who wrote Revelation and some other books and believed in the rapture and so forth happening at the end of the tribulation also... Something is very wrong with that picture wouldn't a person think? I some times probably would make people a little upset with me and I don't like the fact that I have to tell people this, but pre-trib rapture is a false doctrine... I don't preach things that are fit for a persons ears, but for the truth of preparing people for whatever is ahead... God bless my brothers and sisters in Christ... Amen

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  10. "So, you are saying that the church will go through and endure the seven year tribulation period? If that is true why then did Jesus have to die on the cross and endure God's wrath if we have to endure God's wrath during the tribulation period?"

    There is a difference between "God's wrath" and satan's wrath". The great tribulation period will see the manifestation of the wrath of satan against the "saints". Many will be martyred, many more will be deceived. It will be the ultimate test.

    "Give up your physical life to save your unseen soul, or give up your unseen soul to save and prosper your physical life". Those who call themselves Christians, but are of the world will choose the world.

    If a rapture occurs before the wrath of the enemy is unleashed, then how does this logically make sense when we read the scriptures that speak of what is to come?

    I am reminded of the story of the passover. God's wrath is like this. The plagues sent to Egypt hit the Egyptians, but not the people of God. We (the people of God) are not subject to the wrath of God, but we are called to overcome satan. If we are out of here before the "enemy" is fully unleashed and in power, then PRAISE GOD AND THANK GOD for that! But we should probably at least CONSIDER that we might be faced with a choice. Eternal soul in which we cannot see versus our physical life and all contained therein.

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  11. I think the Rapture happens prior to the Tribulation. How far before I don't know. The Tribulation will actually start when the seven year peace treaty with Israel is signed.
    But, much of what's going to happen during the Tribulation is either very much with us now or just beginning.

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  12. Very well put Brother. may God be a blessing to you on that day...

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  13. I agree with the post-trib views. I believe that is the Catholic view also, if I'm not mistaken. I work with some people who are pretty smug thinking they are going to escape it all.....they love the movie Left Behind. They have no idea what is in store for them.

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  14. I think many Christians could gain an understanding of this by realizing the difference between Satan's time of wrath (the Great Tribulation) and God's time of wrath (which occurs at the end of the Tribulation). This link explains:
    http://lastdaybibleprophecy.blogspot.com/2010/11/last-day-wrath-of-satan-vs-last-day.html

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  15. Here is a passage that clearly supports the post tribulational rapture - Revelation 20: 4-6. " I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. "

    The above passage clearly shows that there are only two resurrections: The first resurrection (rapture)includes the martyrs from the Great Tribulation. The second is the resurrection of the unsaved for eternal damnation. There is no more resurrection in between the rapture and the resurrection of the unsaved.

    We will also be protected from God's wrath during Great Tribulation (Rev 7:3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” God bless

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  16. / Right on, Clark. Excellent blog. Here's something that popped up on my computer. Would love reactions. Lord bless. /

    PRETRIB RAPTURE STEALTH !

    Many evangelicals believe that Christ will "rapture" them to heaven years before the second coming and (most importantly) well BEFORE Antichrist and his "tribulation." But Acts 2:34, 35 reveal that Jesus is at the Father's right hand in heaven until He leaves to destroy His earthly foes at the second coming. And Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven with the Father "until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. ("The Rapture Question," by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn't dare to even list, in its scripture index, the above verses! They were also too hot for John Darby - the so-called "father of dispensationalism" - to list in the scripture index in his "Letters"!)
    Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The "rest" for "all them that believe" is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who'd be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of trib “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which Scofield views as Israel's posttrib resurrection!) It's amazing that the Olivet Discourse contains the "great commission" for the church but not even a hint of a pretrib rapture for the church!
    Many don't know that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this "rapture" was stretched forward and turned into an idolized separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which evangelical scholars overwhelmingly rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Google "Walvoord Melts Ice" for more on this, and also Google "Pretrib Rapture Pride."
    Other Google articles on the 183-year-old pretrib rapture view include “X-Raying Margaret,” "Margaret Macdonald's Rapture Chart," "Pretrib Rapture's Missing Lines," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," "The Unoriginal John Darby," "Catholics Did NOT Invent the Rapture," "The Real Manuel Lacunza," “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Famous Rapture Watchers," and "Morgan Edwards' Rapture View" – most by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (the most accurate and documented book on pretrib rapture history which is obtainable by calling 800.643.4645).

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  17. Thanks Irv,

    To look up and read all the excerpts referred to above would take me a long time. Thanks for the overall comment though. Many Pre-Tribbers are beginning to see that we are not talking about a POST-Tribulation Rapture... but instead a PRE-WRATH Rapture (PRE GOD'S wrath). Satan's wrath will end and God's wrath will begin when the 7th Trump BEGINS to sound:
    http://lastdaybibleprophecy.blogspot.com/2012/12/last-day-wrath-of-satan-vs-last-day.html
    Rev 10:7 "But in the DAYS of the voice of the seventh angel, when He shall BEGIN to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets."

    Read more on this at:

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  18. http://lastdaybibleprophecy.blogspot.com/2010/11/last-day-wrath-of-satan-vs-last-day.html

    That is the URL for "Last Day Wrath of Satan vs. Last Day Wrath of God"

    Please understand the difference between God's Wrath and Satan's wrath!

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